Barkbusted.
On Thursday we had a guy from Barkbusters, the world’s largest dog training chain, come do a presentation at work. Barkbusters markets themselves as being “Veterinarian recommended” and he wanted this veterinarian to recommend him.
I was expecting to be unimpressed. I read through some of the propaganda he’d left behind when he came in with cookies to introduce himself, and was so prepared for his dominance dominance dominance “we don’t use treats to train!” speech. And he didn’t disappoint. I wasn’t really prepared for how much it would depress me, though.
His ignorance showed from the beginning. If you come in saying that clicker trainers and people who train with treats end up with dogs who only obey if you have a cookie in your hand and don’t obey out of respect and submission, you’ve shown me that you’re ignorant and uneducated, and I’m done. That is simply incorrect. It shows that you don’t know and have not bothered to learn (not good in a professional trainer!) the very basic tenets of clicker or reward-based training. A lure is not a bribe is not a reward. If your dog won’t sit unless you have a cookie in your hand, you’re doing it wrong.
Anyway, it was all downhill from there. Me dominant. You submissive. Everything a dog does is about gaining dominance. You always have to be on your guard. You have to constantly be exerting your dominance. Not physically, with these people at least. If a dog jumps up, he’s not just eagerly and mannerlessly greeting you. He’s showing you who is the dominant one. If you bend over a scared dog and he tries to bite you, it’s not because bending over him is scary and threatening, it’s because the act of you bending is making you submissive, and he sees that submissive motion and sees his chance to exert his dominance.
Why? Just… why? Why do people set everything up in a relationship with a dog so as to constantly be at odds? I don’t want to be at odds with my dogs. I want a partnership. I want my dogs to be comfortable, to be unstressed, to understand the rules and boundaries of their world, to be polite and to be cooperative.
And yes, I believe thoroughly that dogs need solid leadership. But not because otherwise they become dominant. Because otherwise they don’t know what’s appropriate and what’s not, and they live life on their terms instead of the terms that are appropriate to life in the human world. Resource guarding is natural dog behavior. Door bolting, leash pulling, jumping up, and on and on and on. Normal, natural dog behavior. Inappropriate and unwanted in the context of their lives in our human world.
But I don’t believe that if my dog goes out the door in front of me that he’s being dominant. When Steve tries to climb me because he’s scared of something, how on earth is that him being dominant? And to have someone categorically misread and mislabel that behavior… I sure as heck don’t want to be referring clueless clients to him!
His behavior modification program is also based primarily on correction. The dog does something you don’t want, you must correct them sternly enough that they show some sign of submission (his example was lip-licking, which I’ve always understood to be a sign of stress). When they do what you want, you praise them. Let me tell you how well that would have worked with Luce. Heh.
There seems to be no other tool in the toolbox. There are thrown keys and “water bombs” (plastic baggies full of water that explode when you throw them at the dog’s feet to interrupt behavior), squirt bottles and harsh noises. There are all kinds of punishment tools. The only reward tool is “good dog!” and, I suppose, lack of correction.
I am not categorically opposed to correcting dogs. I don’t think it’s bad, when done appropriately, and it’s certainly something I use with my own dogs in certain circumstances. I’m not wild about setting dogs up to fail in the vast majority of situations, which is a lot of what he made it sound like he does. I think we do better by our dogs, stress them less, help them more when we teach them the behavior we want, make it valuable and worthwhile for them to perform that behavior, and then when it’s installed, expect and require it of them.
It disappoints and frustrates me that he spoke not at all of counterconditioning, of desensitizing, of anything but correction. But he seems to live in a world where it’s all about dominance, and as long as you’re dominant and your dog is submissive, all problems will simply melt away. I live in a world where it’s not necessarily so, and one in which it’s just easier and more sensible to teach instead of suppress.
I could have this man come for free to my home to fix my dogs’ problems (and make me a believer). I’d certainly love to have someone magically fix Mushroom’s leash-reactivity issues and his fence fighting issues. I know how to do it, but the problem is that I’ve thus far been lazy, preferring to manage instead of do the work. But the thing is? I’m not willing to Guinea Pig my dog out to this man. I’m not willing to let this man come in and mentally squash my already soft and insecure dog.
He deserves better than that.
(He deserves my protection as his leader?)
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Siren's Shiitake Happens Couch-Holder-Downer EX
Puppy Steve FDX
So did the company decide to reccomed him to their clients?
“The company” is really just the two practice owners, and I really don’t know the answer, but probably. One asked my opinion, and I said I don’t believe in his type of training and that dominance has largely been debunked and is highly overrated, but I’m afraid I’m the odd person out when it comes to training methods at work :-/
Which is kind of weird given that we give out Karen Overall handouts at work to people with behavior issues, and her methods are not dominance-based. And she’s a cookie-pusher.
You miss the main point by focusing on “trainer wars” instead of what the pet owner needs to know –
Does this person know what he’s doing? Has he demonstrated that he can train a dog? Has he ever done so? Has he demonstrated that he can train an owner? Has he ever done so?
Instead of grilling about methods, why not ask the trainer about his experience? How many years, how many dogs? References? What made him get into dog training in the first place? How was he educated? With whom did he apprentice, and for how long, and doing what? Could you see his personal dogs and have them demonstrate their good manners and obedience? And did he train these dogs himself?
Because the purchaser of a spendy BarkBusters franchise is likely to have a rather different answer to those questions than a professional trainer who took a more traditional path.
Your clients don’t give a shit about trainer politics that boil down to arguments about how many border collies can dance on the head of a pin. Neither do your employers.
But they may care to know what it takes to secure a franchise, and what it takes to attain mastery of a profession, and compare ‘n’ contrast.
George has stayed at day care for 3 years at a 24/7 Emergency Animal Hospital’s Pet Lodge called VCA. BarkBusters came in to do their presentation and the day care girls had asked me before hand if the representative could see George and all his many problems. I said okay because I knew the girls would protect my George.
George pulled the Barkbusters woman down the hall, almost pulling her to the ground and she could not do anything with him. Could not get his attention.
Needless to say, no one was impressed with BarkBusters here in Dallas, Texas, but the hospital does have the brochures on their “table” of information.
PetSmart, however, has been more of a help with me and George than anyone. When George is in one of his “states” you could hold raw meat to him and he turns his head.
George recently had to be sedated after he broke out the front door on one of the hospital cages just for vacations and a nail trim. The vet had never really witnessed such outrageous behavior from George and he gave me the name of a behavorist at a cost of $300 per hour. I can’t do that so I just keep him protected from everything he is scared to death of and uncomfortable with.
Susie
And Heather, I think you missed *my* point, which is my extreme sadness and the feeling that we do a great disservice to people in their relationships with their dogs when we set them up to be constantly at war with one another. Do his methods work? Probably. They must work or this establishment would not be so popular. Not to mention that any kind of training program that instills boundaries and brings rules is going to be effective for many many “out of control” dogs with “behavior problems”. But haven’t we come further than this?
It’s not about Border Collies dancing on pinheads. It’s about teaching people to work with their dogs in concert, instead of feeling constantly threatened by their every behavior.
“Why? Just… why? Why do people set everything up in a relationship with a dog so as to constantly be at odds? I don’t want to be at odds with my dogs. I want a partnership. I want my dogs to be comfortable, to be unstressed, to understand the rules and boundaries of their world, to be polite and to be cooperative.”
AMEN!! It should not be about dominance - It should be about RELATIONSHIP!
Katie, I couldn’t agree with this post more. I also will use corrections - mild verbal corrections intended to convey information, coupled with rewards also intended to convey information. But why would I ever want to live in a constant state of believing my dog is waiting, waiting for that moment when he has his chance…to take over!! It’s beyond crazy, and rewarding *works*. Teaching them rules in a stress-free way, where you don’t assume they are diabolical take-over-the-world machines for exhibiting normal dog behaviors, *works*. Reminding the dog that these rules continue to apply even if they are excited or in a new situation does not have to be a meltdown bewteen you, it can be a training opportunity that works. But above all, I’ve found building communication and trust *works*.
I train my dog to do stockwork and have run into some dominance training there, which I found subdues or turns the dog off but doesn’t really seem to work. Plus, it erodes trust which I need in our partnership. Yes, I am control but funny how my dog seems to recognize that MUCH better when he’s not getting alpha rolled. Corrections are necessary but as information, not threats or coercion. Rules and obedience are necessary, but funny how my dog seems to get that even without being subjected to dominance training his whole puppyhood.
Although, I do wonder if Heather’s point wasn’t that your concept was off-base (I clearly think it’s not), but that with some people, an economic/experience-based argument might go farther than a procedural one.
With Puppy Steve’s recent BC weirdness, can you IMAGINE if he was sent to barkbusters! And I’m sure the guy would read it as dominance, and even more dominance, etc, etc. My final problem with this tactic is just how far do you escalate? I mean, if you throw water bombs or alpha roll and the dog runs away (I mean, asserts his dominance), where do you go from there? Just sad.
Ack, Kelly I think you are correct re: my response to Heather (sorry Heather). Unfortunately, there was no opportunity for Q&A. The only information he was forthcoming with was that he went to six weeks of Barkbusters school and that he’s been doing this for 8 months.
Barkbusters actually WON’T take anybody with training experience. I know trainers that have inquired just for fun - the establishment is kind of a joke in the serious training world - and they were told they had too much experience to be trained to take a franchise. It really is just a complete scam, both from the company to the franchise owners (who probably actually do love dogs; just are clueless about how you learn to train them) and from the company to dog owners.
If you can, encourage your practice owners to not recommend the trainer. Not because of methods (though they’re dumb) but because of the fact that the trainer has had less experience fixing troubled dogs than the owners themselves have had! “Recommending” that kind of trainer could open liability issues for your practice if anyone ever dug deep enough to see that the services were useless.
Yes! I agree that the liabilty angle is brilliant! That just might be your ticket in with them.
I really wonder sometimes if these dominance-obsessed trainers even LIKE dogs. They seem to be constantly paranoid and under the impression that dogs are constantly plotting to overthrow them. It seems like a miserable way to live with a dog.